I have read and accepted the Privacy Policy The confusion stems from the symptoms of a failing transmission, and a failing torque converter is very similar and linked. They may persist for up to two years. When the vehicle is at rest, the fluid clutch slips enough to allow the engine to idle with the transmission in gear without stalling. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. Torque converter problems have a high impact on your car's ability to function and drive. Wilson pre-selectors were pretty well established technology, although not common, by the late 30s. Thanks for this. Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. (These cookies may not be set at all for administrative users unless they access the publicly visible portions of the website and/or update their consent settings e.g., by accepting an updated version of the Privacy Policy. Click to reveal The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. Clutch material, bearing and bushing pieces, and a shiny metal flake appearance will be an indicator that things are coming apart inside. Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. Introduced for the 1950 model year, Studebakers Automatic Drive was developed in partnership with Borg-Warner and was more broadly known as the DG series, after the Borg-Warner Detroit Gear Division that did much of the development work. Transmission Range) start a datalog or have an assistant drive and watch Torque Converter Slip Actual (TCA) and Torque Converter Slip Desired (TCD). I just checked it yesterday and it was right at the full indicator with the transmission properly warmed up. The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. Since the 1940s, automakers have come up with a variety of strategies for reducing or eliminating that slip, including series parallel split torque transmissions and different types of converter lockup clutches. I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. Any reading below 10 RPM slip is really errors in reading the sensors, not real slip. 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. Your car shudders almost as if it's caught the flu and has a temperature. But the catch is that this torque multiplication doesn't last very long. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. The rear planet carrier is attached to the main shaft, which is also splined to the lockup clutch and drives the rear oil pump and governor (medium green). Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. 91.234.33.200 I have yet to read this monumental work in depth. The Vimeo Cookie Policy also provides information about how Vimeo users can control the use of third-party analytics and/or advertising cookies in connection with embedded Vimeo video players. In the diagram above, the yellow arrow again illustrates the flow of power, this time in third (top) gear. One way to minimize coupling slip is to supplement the fluid clutch with a plate clutch that engages when the vehicle reaches cruising speed. By changing the angle of the impeller blades, the torque-converter manufacturer can create a converter that generates a given stall speed with a certain torque multiplication. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. Over 10 RPM is real slip. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. It does drove different than a lock up. by SirHandyMan Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am, Post If it does go let us know. by Silver Flex SEL. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. :whs: I was seeing 200-300 on the 310 with the stock converter but still felt really strong! I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. (If you need to review or change these settings after you accept, you can do so from the Privacy Tools page.) If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. The car became basically undriveable. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. Filling the cylinder with pressurized oil would lock the pressure plate to the clutch plate itself, forcing the clutch and input shaft to rotate with the torus cover at engine speed. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed. The faster it spins, the more force it provides, which causes the fluid to flow faster and harder. This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! As youll see if you look at the first one, the original iteration had three speeds forward and one reverse, for which it requires four epicyclic gearsets. It was followed in fairly short order by the 1950 Studebaker Automatic Drive, which took a somewhat different approach to the same problem. The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. (author diagram). Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. On early Ultramatic-equipped Packards, the lockup clutch would not engage until road speed reached at least 15 mph (24 km/h) even on a light throttle. On some prewar bus and rail car transmissions with lockup torque converters, the lockup clutch was engaged manually, but automotive lockup clutches are designed to engage and disengage automatically. The turbine has a spline that attaches to the transmission input shaft, which connects to the internal parts of the transmission to shift gears and provide power to the wheels. ), This cookie was set if you clicked the "Disable Google Analytics Tracking" link to prevent the Google Analytics service from tracking your use of the Ate Up With Motor website. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. A flyweight 2,800-pound car like an early Mustang or Chevy II could use less multiplication to successfully launch on their relatively smaller rear tires. When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. All rights reserved. This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. The torque converter is made up of five parts: 1. This is how the first fluid couplings were designed, but they were hideously inefficient because of high slippage. In third gear, the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DGs lockup clutch drives the transmissions output shaft at engine speed, providing a completely mechanical direct drive with no hydraulic slippage. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post The torque converter is made up of five parts: The stator is called the middleman. Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. When coasting, the turbine overruns the impeller, which causes slippage, but relatively little braking effect. It ran pretty good. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. A high-stall converter like a 4,000-rpm unit is not only lazy from a part-throttle-efficiency standpoint, but it also generates much more heat. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 pm, Post This viscous connection is transmission fluid. Your first course of action, if you notice yourtransmission or torque converter has started to slip or shudder is checking your fluid level. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. There will typically be several such cookies, each beginning with "gdpr" (e.g., gdpr[allowed_cookies], gdpr&5Bprivacy_bar&5D, and gdpr[consent_types]). One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. (For this cookie, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) there were around 6 defaults that popped up. The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. (author diagram). Locking the converter with a scan tool bypasses the tune and verifies everything mechanical is in order. The end result is the torque converterisn't able to transferthat power completely and efficiently from the engine to the transmission. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. All engine power flows through the mechanical clutch directly to the input shaft. The combination of a smaller-diameter and lighter converter means that less engine torque is required for acceleration. The original Packard Ultramatic had a four-element torque converter with a single stator (light blue) interposed between the first- and second-stage turbines, providing a stall ratio of 2.4:1 at 1,600 rpm. 51.91.16.67 When you coast in gear, the transmission attempts to drive the engine crankshaft, whose inertia causes a braking effect. It stayed there(18.24) from 60mph to 90 when I let off of it. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. 5r110 torque slip | Ford Power Stroke Nation I found the cause of the P0325 and P0330 error codes. Also, engaging a lockup clutch will prevent a torque converter from multiplying torque. The GM team that designed Hydra-Matic was certainly familiar with the Wilson preselector. Any slip is bad. of course it could be logging falsely No, that just means its not locking, or the pid isn't reading right. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. I had unlimited tow loaded and he thought maybe it wasn't playing nice with my trans. The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. There are a number of posts referencing this issue, look for the wires coming out from under the intake manifold behind the elbow that contains the coolant thermostat. If the fluid becomes contaminated, anything that uses and relies on the fluid can be damaged. Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. How ever this did happen right after I did the six 0 to 60 mph relearn runs. My SunCoast converter has a little slip. The Vimeo Cookie Policy does not currently disclose the normal durations of the cookies and similar technologies the Vimeo platform uses, but it appears that some may remain in your browser (or other user agent) for as long as your settings permit. Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. This sounds really great, and it is. Last fall, the external filter disintegrated and clogged up the cooler. Your ring and pinion (gear size) Your circumference or roll out of the rear tires. (Both turbines, here colored medium blue, were bolted together into a single unit, but had different blade profiles.) and our This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case, The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. The wahFontColor and wahBgColor cookies, which are set if you alter the site's color scheme, normally expire after about 14 days, but you can remove them immediately by clicking the "Restore Defaults" button on the sidebar. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. Almost no one thinks of it, but when you drive your automatic transmission car, you're master over your cars torque converter. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. Whether it will add to my working knowledge is debatable, but my brain will benefit from the workout. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. Wallace Racing - Converter Slip Calculator In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. Multiple different problems, some transmission related, some engine related, all resulting in driveability issues. Gears Magazine - Nag 1/722.6 P0741 TCC Slip Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. Impeller Pump The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. I purchased my car 3 weeks ago from a new car dealership.. Most street torque. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. How To Log Transmission And Torque Converter Slip In HPtuners!!! I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). Hydraulic slippage is much less desirable at cruising speed. In Drive, the direct clutch is engaged and both bands are released, causing the input sun gear, the low sun gear (orange), the planet carrier and output shaft (light green) to turn at input shaft speed. But now with the Spartan 275 I am seeing 18.24 at WOT with the converter locked. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. Keep reading to find out these common torque converter problems and how to fix them. One thing Ive always wondered about was if any manufacturers looked into Wilson pre-selector gearboxes as a basis of an automatic.