Ive looked into this topic myself, not professionally or anything-just as an interested lay researcher with a science/statistics background- and had a less well-articulated formulation of the tower vs. foundation model in mind for awhile, too. I didnt understand why you left out the actual finding, which seems to be an important fact to note. The strong differences in estimated SNP heritability between ASD cases with and without intellectual disability, and highest in Aspergers provide genetic evidence of longstanding observations. Autistic people being diagnosed with intellectual disabilities before theyre able to to talk and not really being undiagnosed when theyve demonstrated higher levels of ability is very much a thing. Moreover, if your family isnt too bright, you might not even recognize that theres something funny about your latest kid. The Western world (taken to mean Europe and the Anglosphere) comprises roughly 1/6th of the global population, which means there should be about 125,000 Westerners who are both incredibly smart and incredibly charismatic. Causation not detected through a randomized controlled trial. Shes a real handful to deal with and that deters quality men from being interested in her. Umm, what? IQb medium genetic load : high intelligence, autistic highly functional autist or autistic tendencies, strongly tenchnically inclined However, once it exceeds a certain threshold, the network starts learning things that dont make any sense, and then when it tries to correct those mistakes it goes too far in the other direction again. The optimal value is at 10.0 (for example). (I.e. By and large, they find conversations with non-genius people extremely boring, because they can predict exactly what the other person will say long before he says it. I think youd need to ask them about their internal experiences, but Id guess a lot of the people you find unusually functional arent putting a lot of effort into fitting in. I spent a lot of time reading about giftedness (having a IQ > 130) in the last few months, specifically educating gifted kids and teenagers, and I found out quite some things about how giftedness can interact with social ability: It turns out that giftedness can be quite a burden for children and teenagers, as not many of their peers can relate to them and vice versa. In the graph of relatives, are autists typically on the border or inside of high-IQ regions? And her failure to understand social cues lets her be taken advantage of by lower-quality men, who have sexually abused her on multiple occasions. You tell them that the study that tried to address that question suggests that they are between one point one and one point two times as likely; in other words, at least 83-90% of their chance to die in any given year is baseline. Because he was as skilled as me, and had real muscles. This has nothing to do with the OP, but I will definitely comment on your wrestling example, as a wrestler. This is the only study I know that has actually measured autism rates in the general public. Slate Star Codex was a blog by Scott Alexander about human cognition, politics, and medicine. Book Review: The Perfect Health Diet Under https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/07/5-httlpr-a-pointed-review/ Murphy wrote: disorders like huntingtons where its theorized that theres a tradeoff between risk of death and IQ. Why do you think they arent sperging out about sportsball? (Or did, 20+ years ago when I last took an IQ test.) (Apologies for a machine metaphor that is certainly misleading, but better than anything else than I can think of.). Well, much debate here gets into the distinction between people with high functioning autism and Aspergers, due to a muddling at that end of the scale. IQb + high genetic load: autism with lowish IQ, always diagnosed as autist My original post talked about dual axes, functionality and intelligence, with non-functional high intelligence becoming, effectively, a distinct kind of low intelligence. But if you want to redefine incredible to mean the top 0.1 percent of the population, then yes, Bugmasters guess would be roughly accurate: Thered be approximately 1,250 people who were both incredibly smart and incredibly charismatic in the Western world, or maybe 1,500-2,000 if you assume a minor positive correlation between being intelligence and being socially adept. If you get the volume knob too close to the feedback point, the sound will start to behave strangely it will ring weirdly in a way its never done before. And rich people, on average, receive better medical care particularly rich white people. Naturally, things are getting worse. If the mums with low functioning autistic children, the ones I spoke to described the fathers as losers or deadbeats. Humans have been selectively breeding themselves since the dawn of civilization, even if we werent consciously aware of it; reproductively speaking, the traits that are selected for in an organized society are bound to differ than those that wouldve been selected for in the wild. Is it because that is a trait many people here associate with passing for normal? His processing was below average. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6013750/, Increasing repeat length was associated with higher GAI scores up until roughly 4041 repeats. Many such cases with Aspergers (me too), whereas for high functioning autism the deficit is inverted for processing vs visuo-spatial. n=1, but it was striking to watch my very smart middle kid go from being a near-outcast in his good Catholic school to a guy with lots of friends at his magnet school. That would give me more than enough money to give the middle finger to all the ignorant normies in our politically correct society, with plenty left over to hire some bodyguards and build mechanical defense systems to insulate me from any of the outraged pearl-clutching idiots who decided to use physical violence against me when their threat of social sanctioning wasnt enough. Its much easier to please one person than an entire society, and unlike our judgmental mouth-breathers in the States, Putin at least seems like a pretty pragmatic and reasonable guy. Sights and sounds are processed in the brain area that first receives it without sending it further to attach meaning. Lets say for example that parameter A is the learning rate in the part of the brain that deals with reasoning. The brain has hyperparameters, just like an artificial neural network. My oldest child, a boy, is very high functioning. Theres obviously no reason genetic factors would aggregate in a nice linear fashion in that kind of situation. This is a great post. Perhaps it will help if I ask a question. Well, there is a point, but it takes a long time to grasp it, at which point you are significantly behind people who went along with them without questioning them. threshold and massive achievement, massive achievement should have exploded in recent decades. And at least a few of them were probably just lying outright. However, if too many such genes coincide in the same individual, then A exceeds its optimum of 10. I am convinced there are a lot more genius now, but : This could also tie back in to socioeconomic status better off parents may be more likely to have kids diagnosed as having autism instead of some other less acceptable mental disability, which could also potentially explain the racial disparities. You don't have to be a diagnosed autist to be like that. These questions interest me because I know a lot of people who are bright nerdy programmers married to other bright nerdy programmers, and sometimes they ask me if their children are at higher risk for autism. This makes a very strong auditory learner. This friend had been working for many years with Leroy Hood. Why on Earth one would assume that the effect of genes that contribute to IQ should be linearly additive and increasing to ad infinitum? List of Probability Calibration Exercises - LessWrong This is consistent with the existence of people in the past who seem to be about as bright as humans get. To the best of my knowledge, the whole Idiocracy concept (humans are selecting against intelligence because smart people have fewer children) is basically nothing more than a just-so story made up by concerned pseudo-intellectuals. The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. Combining information from a wide variety of studies, Gaugler et al estimate that about 52% of autism risk is attributable to ordinary familial genes, 3% to rare de novo mutations, 4% to complicated non-additive genetic interaction effects, and 41% unaccounted, which may be non-genetic factors or genetic factors we dont understand and cant measure. (This sounds harsh, but I want a child at least as normal as I am). If we got 10/10, wed get a gold star, and, if 9/10, a silver star. The existence of a well-defined subset of low IQ people whose relatives have higher-than-predicted IQs is a surprising finding that cuts through the measurement difficulties and suggests that this is a real phenomenon. One big category would be selection bias due to diagnosis bias. Some of the software I am running to handle those tasks manually requires huge amounts of processing power, resolution, intelligence, and or ability to abstract. the genetic load would be due to bad luck in parent mixing (recessive-recessive pairs) and parent age. So they went to one doctor, and the doctor removed gluten and dairy from her diet. The autism epidemic may have been caused by assortative mating (people with subclinical autism marrying other people with subclinical autism producing children who are autistic) The sort of people that would do polygenic scoring for IQ are exactly the sort of people whose children might already be at risk for autism (high systemisers) Commentary: The autistic community is having a reckoning with ABA Of the autistics I personally know (through common support groups), the Aspergers all have a parent who is an engineer or computer scientist of some sort. Still, the IQ-boosting alleles produce autism instead of a more classical low IQ that genetic load alone would have had. Autism And Intelligence: Much More Than You Wanted To Know I have no family history of autism. They get offended more if you question them than normal lawyers do, they have the 4chan-y social awkwardness that those communities jokingly call autism, etc. no IQb + low genetic load : high intelligence, sociable, not so technically inclined When she was three, she had symptoms of autism. Moments of it? This study of 45,000 Danes finds that genetic risk for autism correlates at about 0.2 with both IQ and educational attainment. (1) genes that promote autism are correlated with IQ and Bottle. However, history doesnt always predict the future. If I personally were one of these hypothetical genius scientists in possession of technology that could reshape the world, I think that the most optimal strategy for me would be to offer this technology to the U.S. in exchange for a large sum of money say, $50 million. Yes their interests and opinions are often eccentric, but they are self-aware of this and do not have problems navigating everyday interactions. Theres a new paper out on how the frequency of variants that affect educational achievement (which also affect IQ) have been changing over time in Iceland. Like, if you have one copy of a particular high-IQ gene you get high IQ, but two copies of that gene is too much of a good thing and you get autism? Thus it is perhaps unsurprising that our data suggests that the contribution of common variants may be more prominent in high-functioning ASD cases such as Aspergers syndrome. (For example, a too-big head would kill mother and baby until modern times; now it just means mom gets a C-section.). She has absolute pitch, [] an amazingly high proportion of her autistic students have it to some degree. I then play out both parts of the conversation from memory as their mouth gapes open.). I would file this under partly true. Even if intelligence where a little lower we would have a lot more genius given the increase in population. The idea is that autistic children have more and finer-grained category boundaries, causing them to over-differentiate similar phonemes that most speakers use interchangeably. Thus, any sample of fathers is likely to overestimate the average IQ of fathers on average because fathers are around to be measured (arent in jail, arent dead, didnt just take off) have higher average IQ than those who who arent around to be measured. Causation not detected through a randomized controlled trial Insofar as autism has a coherent definition, it is a category that embraces a variety of behavioral and neural processing anomalies. The avoidance of eye contact. Most of these seem to be related to social ability. He is the most Civil Servicy person around. https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/07/5-httlpr-a-pointed-review/, https://sci-hub.tw/10.1176/appi.ajp.2018.18070881, Arizone State University Autism symptoms reduced nearly 50% two years after fecal transplant, The Economist More evidence that autism is linked to gut bacteria, Maybe Your Zoloft Stopped Working Because A Liver Fluke Tried To Turn Your Nth-Great-Grandmother Into A Zombie, https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40489-016-0085-x.pdf, http://cepuk.org/unrecognised-facts/diagnostic-system-lacks-validity/, https://medicine.uiowa.edu/psychiatry/content/ui-research-suggests-huntingtons-disease-gene-also-vital-human-development-and-intelligence, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2749054, https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/8/e029040.full. 80,000 Hours researches different problems and professions to help you figure out how to do as much good as possible. I suspect that this is the case. No guarantees in biology, but you can try to find a future partner with no such family history. 46.8k members in the slatestarcodex community. His processing was below average. I dont know. His auditory channel is very slow and only turns on when you say his name or repeat the question. Perhaps something similar but more extreme is true of autism: maybe autistic people are more highly represented at both ends of the IQ distribution. Or in the case of plants, their leaf structures are generated by a fractal pattern, and even small changes in the parameters of that fractal cause large changes in the ultimate pattern in a way that is chaotic and difficult to predict. That, combined with intentional software creation can lead to more or less high functioning autists. Its talked through in detail here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd54l8gfi7M). This could be constructed as autistic behavior, but I dont buy it. most kids will be pretty clearly high or low functioning, with little in between? (remember that no intellectual disability just means IQ over 70, and so many of these not-intellectually-disabled people may still have low intelligence I wish the paper had quantified this). In some sense, all autism has such-and-such characteristics studies are studying the way people like to define autism, and tell us nothing about any underlying disease process. The Charman et al study finds a correlation between autism and low IQ, by starting with a sample of autistic people and looking at their IQs. Its a highly abnormal subset of people. It sounds very plausible that the effect of gene variant a and the effect gene variant b alone tweak the machinery in a way that increases its capabilities, but when applied together, they could have a catastrophic collision. This is what we find; see Table 4 here. These 3 have a near 100% incidence rate among civil service employees that Ive had to interact with. Question the first. There is another problem: Giftedness also increases empathy, which in the wrong environment can be a bad thing. List 1 Avoids eye contact Doesn't smile Doesn't reach out to be picked up Rejects your efforts to calm, soothe, and connect Doesn't seem to notice or care when you leave them alone Cries inconsolably Doesn't coo or make sounds The mothers of red-green colorblind individuals are frequently tetrachromats. That figure seems very low to me, though it depends what exactly you define as incredibly smart and incredibly charismatic. If we take incredibly to be synonymous with top percentile, there would be 75 million people in the world who are incredibly intelligent. B4X is a free and open source developer tool that allows users to write apps for Android, iOS, and more. Against autism as "extreme male brain"? : slatestarcodex Energy/perseverance/drive and other harder to measure factors. Its not because simply being small or being large or having a flat face are inherently unhealthy traits; there are other species that are much smaller than Yorkies, much larger than Great Danes, and have flatter faces than Pugs, without suffering any problems as a result. I was getting my disorders mixed up, yes, but this is the one I was thinking of. Hes amazing! An analogy: Imagine you have a sound system with a microphone, speakers, and a mixing board. Find company research, competitor information, contact details & financial data for AUCHAN RETAIL INTERNATIONAL of CROIX, HAUTS DE FRANCE. So I gave that fact to save others the effort to dig for it, while trying to give a subtle hint to you that it is better to include the finding. By the same rationale, you could say that no one is normal, and everyone is simply running a mental emulation. But in general there will always be a hereditary component to personality characteristics that is probably linked to genes and one will be able to find correlations, but that is a long long way from understanding etiology or validating a single diagnostic label for a broad phenotype. Low IQ fathers are less likely to be available due to death/imprisonment/not being around anymore/maybe not even knowing who the father is. Indeed, blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans all have higher levels of overall learning disabilities than whites do. Assortative Mating And Autism | Slate Star Codex Support Slate Star Codex on Patreon. Id cheerfully get in bed with the military-industrial complex -in fact, Id probably be rock-hard the whole time. Many definitions of autism center around forms of poor functioning which are correlated with low intelligence. Or maybe not, because the researchers just act like they are cognitively distinct subtypes anyway, so it might not make much difference in practice. It doesnt really present much evidence for this other than that autistic people seem to have high perceptual intelligence. do people predisposed to have autistic kids tend to have them later? Good clarifying question. Obviously it cannot be 100%, but I have not yet encountered one that isnt a narcissist or what the internet calls an autist. I married an autistic woman. Spoiler alert: ASD in adults was estimated to be 1%. Also, IQ over 70 should be IQ under 70, and people have have autism should be people who have autism. My parents were optometrists. One just needs to consider a model where a brain is a complicated object whose organization and function depends on changes in the genetic blueprint in non-monotonic ways, and it is likely that all combinations (attainable via sexual reproduction) of genes that are beneficial alone or in some particular arrangements are not even more beneficial together; some of the potential arrangements are bound to be non-optimal or even catastrophic. This study of 45,000 Danes finds that genetic risk for autism correlates at about 0.2 with both IQ and educational attainment. In a situation where being outcast from the tribe means that the tribe is going to die instead of the outcast, then the tribe had better learn to put up or shut up. And, being a fairly intelligent person himself, he agreed that it didnt make much sense, but it didnt change that fact that he was able to overpower equally muscular people through sheer force in the ring. I havent been keeping up.) If it is, that could explain some of these results. Our ages when our son (1st child) was born were 27 (me) and 26 (my wife), and for our daughter (3rd child) we were 31 and 30. Or if (as really happens) it turns out that smart, ambitious people usually have their kids a decade later than dumb, unambitious people and usually the smart, ambitious people only have enough time in their fertility window for one kid while the dumb ones have time for three. it separates ASD, ADHD, and ID (intellectual disorder). Further (indirect) confirmation of the autism-IQ link comes from evolutionary investigations. In most GWAS studies there has been little evidence of heterogeneity of association across phenotypic subgroups. While autism (and Asperger) has a lot of symptoms, there is one thing I noticed early on: people on the spectrum tend to take words very literally. Wheat: Much More Than You Wanted To Know Theres a range for this parameter, selection in the past has left most of the population too low, but if you push the parameter up too high things will break. Highly intelligent people are likely to have different interests, read and talk about different things, than average peopledoes that make them not normal?